tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post112774939477558525..comments2023-10-10T14:37:58.307+01:00Comments on ICAEW News: Reasons To Vote Against The ICAEW Merger ProposalKen Frosthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13568488818950912374noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128533666982871692005-10-05T18:34:00.000+01:002005-10-05T18:34:00.000+01:00Anon 1.03 p.m.,harsh words, but they capture the f...Anon 1.03 p.m.,<BR/><BR/>harsh words, but they capture the feelings of a few people I know(from different Institutes).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128513784936329672005-10-05T13:03:00.000+01:002005-10-05T13:03:00.000+01:00The Institute have to put some spin on the whole t...The Institute have to put some spin on the whole thing, as they cannot tell the truth:<BR/><BR/>1. We are not was good as we think we are. ACCA and CIMA are pressing way ahead of us.<BR/>2. We need CIPFAs £35mm consultancy income to subsidise our activities.<BR/>3. We need CIPFAs intellectual capital to give us a higher profile.<BR/>4. ICAI and ICAS do not want us.<BR/><BR/>We do not have the skills to generate our own organic growth so we are doing the only thing we can – buying it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128511475856502442005-10-05T12:24:00.000+01:002005-10-05T12:24:00.000+01:00Anstee and ICAEW were equally incompetent and dish...Anstee and ICAEW were equally incompetent and dishonest.<BR/><BR/>How could they spend to much and not dismiss their PR advisors who are reported on this site to be the dregs of their profession.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128510891381373332005-10-05T12:14:00.000+01:002005-10-05T12:14:00.000+01:00You have already admitted that they were too stupi...You have already admitted that they were too stupid, or dishonest, to get their numbers right.<BR/><BR/>You do not belong in any professional institute if you believe your last answer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128510334883278292005-10-05T12:05:00.000+01:002005-10-05T12:05:00.000+01:00The Institute is simply stating the facts so that ...The Institute is simply stating the facts so that each of us can make our own informed decision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128504229922252722005-10-05T10:23:00.000+01:002005-10-05T10:23:00.000+01:00Are you deliberately obtuse or ...It is pure spin ...Are you deliberately obtuse or ...<BR/><BR/>It is pure spin to use the words "world" and "global" and imply that CIPFA have some major international importance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128503576838589242005-10-05T10:12:00.000+01:002005-10-05T10:12:00.000+01:00Hey bright sparkIf you add up the public sector el...Hey bright spark<BR/><BR/>If you add up the public sector element of the countries you mentioned and compare that with the global economy you will get 40% You have failed to read the paragraph correctly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128502153290293502005-10-05T09:49:00.000+01:002005-10-05T09:49:00.000+01:00Ever heard of USA, Russia, China, South Africa, Au...Ever heard of USA, Russia, China, South Africa, Australia, Brazil and Poland.<BR/><BR/>Now rephrase the 40% to my satisfaction.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128501812751437862005-10-05T09:43:00.000+01:002005-10-05T09:43:00.000+01:00Agreed that the paragraph should have read as foll...Agreed that the paragraph should have read as follows:<BR/><BR/>"As the pre-eminent public sector<BR/>accountancy body in the world members work at the heart of an economic sector which accounts for approximately 40% of the global economy. CIPFA<BR/>represents 13,500 members"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128499718586834562005-10-05T09:08:00.000+01:002005-10-05T09:08:00.000+01:002950 + are in any event retired.2950 + are in any event retired.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128493912352412062005-10-05T07:31:00.000+01:002005-10-05T07:31:00.000+01:00I have just read the proposal document and laughed...I have just read the proposal document and laughed out loud at the following phrase,<BR/><BR/>"As the pre-eminent public sector<BR/>accountancy body in the world,CIPFA<BR/>represents 13,500 members working atthe heart of an economic sector which accounts for approximately 40% of the global economy."<BR/><BR/>This kind of meaningless PR may seem very clever to those who write it, but unfortunately only highlights the weakness of their argument.<BR/><BR/>Will resignations occur if the No vote wins the day?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128188750732712952005-10-01T18:45:00.000+01:002005-10-01T18:45:00.000+01:00Quote:It is one of the first duties of a professor...Quote:<BR/><BR/>It is one of the first duties of a professor, for example, in any subject, to exaggerate a little both the importance of his subject and his own importance in it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128187242601570282005-10-01T18:20:00.000+01:002005-10-01T18:20:00.000+01:00CIPFA Member,you are right, it's the person that c...CIPFA Member,<BR/><BR/>you are right, it's the person that counts. I have seen oxygen thieves who are members of CIMA, ICAEW, ACCA and CIPFA in the public sector.<BR/><BR/>Anon 1.37p.m.,<BR/><BR/>Those from the same Institute as a great many androids should be careful about criticising other accountants' qualities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128176020535674522005-10-01T15:13:00.000+01:002005-10-01T15:13:00.000+01:00ok, I was being a bit provocative about small prac...ok, I was being a bit provocative about small practices - I've no doubt there are interesting and challenging aspects - and it wasn't meant as a dig at ACCA. It was intended to illustrate the point that ICAEW is not some homogeneous group of accountants better than the rest of us!<BR/><BR/>Regarding the post at 1.37pm about "responsible for millions", I assume its meant as some sort of swipe at public sector financial results. There are two points in particular about this:<BR/><BR/> - firstly a general point that politicians, Board members etc decide policy and the financial results are not necessarily the responsibility of the accountants; and <BR/><BR/>- secondly, not just CIPFA members work in public services. Many NHS hospitals and PCTs have ICAEW members as their finance directors, and there are widespread deficits in the NHS. This is often because the actions necessary to remain in budget are not politically acceptable, its not the fault of the FD,whichever institute he or she is with.<BR/><BR/>I don't believe the evidence supports the view that CIPFA members are worse at financial control in public services than members of other institutes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128171712031253622005-10-01T14:01:00.000+01:002005-10-01T14:01:00.000+01:00I agree with the ACCA (?) member above. We weren't...I agree with the ACCA (?) member above. We weren't invited to the party so there seems little point in insulting most of us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128170222384892342005-10-01T13:37:00.000+01:002005-10-01T13:37:00.000+01:00Re CIPFA member,Does he/she think the latter could...Re CIPFA member,<BR/><BR/>Does he/she think the latter could obtain work as the former?<BR/><BR/>There are many aspects to a small practice.<BR/><BR/>Also, to judge by results CIPFA members responsible for millions ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128169393347724812005-10-01T13:23:00.000+01:002005-10-01T13:23:00.000+01:00I agree with many of the comments by the CIPFA mem...I agree with many of the comments by the CIPFA member.<BR/><BR/>I am neither CIPFA nor ICAEW but I think CIPFA would be foolish to abandon the independence of their small but selective club.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128168048764209372005-10-01T13:00:00.000+01:002005-10-01T13:00:00.000+01:00I'm CIPFA qualified, and have perused this site wi...I'm CIPFA qualified, and have perused this site with interest - its been very informative. Here are some reflections:<BR/><BR/>I find it sad how some members of one institute try to justify superiority over another. In my experience of working with members of all the institutes, what counts is the person, their abilities and experience. Which institute they qualified with becomes increasingly irrelevant as their career develops.<BR/><BR/>ICAEW members work in range of areas. How can the skills and "brand quality" of those who work in small offices preparing sole trader / partnership / small organisation accounts (which are not difficult or interesting) be compared with those who work as FD's of large companies? Of course they can't, and neither could the former suddenly get a job as the latter. <BR/><BR/>How could CIPFA members working as FD's of large public sector organisations mananging hundreds of millions of pounds per year "dilute" a "ICAEW brand" that includes people who spend all day on small sets of accounts? <BR/><BR/>As I say, the qualification with whichever institute is the starting point, its the person that counts after that.<BR/><BR/>Also, could someone also explain to me why the ICAEW members on this forum want to maintain a brand that you evidently have so many complaints about?<BR/><BR/>By the way, I shall probably vote against - because of comments about the failings of the ICAEW on this site, the danger that ICAEW will "swallow" CIPFA, and because I feel we need a wider rationalisation in the UK profession than just our two institutes "merging".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128111603018159452005-09-30T21:20:00.000+01:002005-09-30T21:20:00.000+01:00Anon 8.07Which of the two of the chartered bodies ...Anon 8.07<BR/><BR/>Which of the two of the chartered bodies exams did you sit and which was the 1 of the 7 you were not allowed membership to.<BR/><BR/>Regards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128108571333624642005-09-30T20:29:00.000+01:002005-09-30T20:29:00.000+01:00Thanks, but what about CCAB and senior internatio...Thanks, but what about CCAB and senior international bodies in particular?<BR/><BR/>I have to say that my policy is to employ qualified accountants who are cleverer than me.<BR/><BR/>Regards to all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128107236043331922005-09-30T20:07:00.000+01:002005-09-30T20:07:00.000+01:00I passed the examinations of two of the chartered ...I passed the examinations of two of the chartered bodies without effort. That entitled me to become a member of 6 of the 7 chartered accountancy/tax bodies.<BR/><BR/>I was not a professional student, I was a woker (8 am until 11 pm most days) so I found no time to study for CIMA - passed the lot in a year - and spent less time studying for those exams than sitting them. I believe that recent standards have plummeted at CIMA.<BR/><BR/>I also worked for KPMG (actually, Peat, Marwick, Mitchell & Co, London). I seem to remember Ken and Jeff did as well.<BR/><BR/>It would be interesting have comments from Nigel Eastaway and Dr Ashton - they probably have 2 or 3 times as many qualifications as both of us put together.<BR/><BR/>Please understand, my loyalties are firmly with Ken, MA, and ICAEW.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128104241847151342005-09-30T19:17:00.000+01:002005-09-30T19:17:00.000+01:00I do understand ma.I was a "professional student" ...I do understand ma.<BR/><BR/>I was a "professional student" at one time. I qualified as CIPFA with KPMG in the early 90's. Then went to BPP Accountancy Tutors as a lecturer where I also sat ACCA, CIMA, ATII and ICAS (all first time passes). I am now with EXXONMOBIL responsible for European Tax.<BR/><BR/>Take it from me that each brand exam is difficult. I firmly believe that for each of the ACAs, ACCAs, CIMAs that work for me each are as good as each other (I am the only CIPFA qualified).<BR/><BR/>I am more interested in the global issues that effect us. SOX is more of an issue than UK GAAP for me.<BR/><BR/>I firmly believe that the time has come for the Uk to speak whith one voice on accounting issues. This means a merger of all six institutes.<BR/><BR/>really, the Chartered brand is only a figment of the public's imagination these days.<BR/><BR/>Kind regards.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128102340783862662005-09-30T18:45:00.000+01:002005-09-30T18:45:00.000+01:00It is unfortunate that you do not understand and y...It is unfortunate that you do not understand and you are of course entitled to your opinion even though many will not agree.<BR/><BR/>If CIPFA and CIMA regard themselves as superior to the ICAEW why would their Councils wish to even consider a merger? <BR/><BR/>You can of course retort correctly that ICAEW started the ball rolling. Sadly, that is a fact.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128100894779043232005-09-30T18:21:00.000+01:002005-09-30T18:21:00.000+01:00I do not understad why the route to ICAEW is more ...I do not understad why the route to ICAEW is more dificult. Facts:<BR/><BR/>1. ICAEW students get about three months of spoon feeding study leave to sit exms. Anyone could pass with that support.<BR/>2. CIPFA students sit a 5 Hr case study - much longer than that of ICAEW.<BR/>3. CIPFA students submit a thesis to show application of business knowledge. ICAEW's simply memorise facts.<BR/><BR/>CIPFA and CIMA members are more than just "chartered accountants".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9611129.post-1128099551556376862005-09-30T17:59:00.000+01:002005-09-30T17:59:00.000+01:00It is some time since I have seen a comment from D...It is some time since I have seen a comment from Dr Jeff. Since he has a doctorate I'm sure he has a brain of some distinction.<BR/><BR/>I have little doubt there will also be a few hundred CIMA members with doctorates. Even so, I do not regard CIMA or CIPFA as equal.<BR/><BR/>Many of us chose to become Chartered Accountants because we regarded that as the most difficult and prestigious route to success.<BR/><BR/>As Ken says, DON'T DILUTE THE BRAND.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com